5 comments about Kingdom of the Cults, The.

1. Though this book is hardly a quick read at 700+ pages, it is a must if you are a serious student of religion. Every chapter starts out with an overview of the cults mentioned and how they came to their particular erroneous beliefs and ends with the scriptural reference refuting that belief. I found this book invaluable to my cause of witnessing to the public regarding these religions. Even though we know that there is something wrong with these cults, it is hard to provide a reason why until you have read this book! My copy is heavily underlined and highlighted. I shipped it to my mother and sister to read and they have not sent it back to me so I guess I need to purchase a new one!



2. This volume is considered the definitive book on cults - not only those that are allegedly "Christian," but also the overtly non-Christian, all of which deny the deity of Jesus Christ and the all-sufficient atoning power of His death on the cross. Dr. Martin covers them in depth in this outstanding book, which also taught me a great deal about true Christianity along the way.



3. Previously I owned the 1985 edition, and purchased the new edition for use in a church study group. The material on each of the religious groups mentioned is thorough and useful (for instance, Dr. Martin goes on at great length and detail about how they twist Scripture and how to counter their arguments). Frankly, it is an indispensable guide on its subject matter. However, there is also no clear outline within each chapter, and long sections of technical explanation that are not well delineated, and a lot of repetition. It is more difficult than it needs to be even for the above-average reader.



4. A wonderful illustration for those not wishing to approve or condemn other religions, but simply to compare them with true Christianity as written in the Bible.



5. Speaking as someone who has spent my entire life, since first becoming interested in Christianity and all its sects when I was 8 and got my first Bible from my grandparents, studying all the different faiths I could find the material study - including reading "Science and Health" and "The Book of Mormon" in their entirety - I feel that "The Kingdom of the Cults" commits two cardinal sins that all should strive to avoid in their study of religions.
   
   The first is gauging religions based on something else, instead of taking them on their own merits. This books tells its reader, "Here is the doctrine of a certain faith and here is why it doesn't make any sense at all." You are denied the ability to understand what actually supports opposing faiths because each one is measured based on its distance from (and I hesitate to use this word) "orthodox" Christianity. All you learn from this style of critique is why you do not believe in a certain faith, and even then this is achieved by the author repeating things you already know about your own faith (or at least the author's faith).
   
   The second is not taking the religions seriously. In order to understand a religion you must pay it the initial respect of taking it seriously. If you don't, how could you possibly understand what the adherents of a certain faith believe? They do not take their faith as a joke, or as false, or as a hoax, so how could you possibly present a religion in that light and claim that it is a true representation? If you present this new-found knowledge to someone who practices one of these faiths, they will disagree with you and not just because you are insulting their faith, but because honestly, that is NOT WHAT THEY BELIEVE.
   
   One of my friends was able to summarize the content of the book this way, "Reading `The Kingdom of the Cults' to try to gain an understanding of those faiths is like studying the rear end of an elephant to try to gain an understanding of the elephant."
   
   I know that this has been a lengthy review, so I do not want to dwell on my final criticism very long, especially because it has already been voiced many times. This book also lacks factual and logical accuracy. As a brief, simple illustration I will take a comment that was made on Mary Baker Eddy. Of all religions mentioned in this book, I am most familiar with Christian Science and Christian Scientists. Martin writes, "...contrary to the claims of Christian Scientists that Eddy always enjoyed robust health..." I know no Christian Scientist who believes that Mary Baker Eddy enjoyed anything near `robust health.' It is a commonly accepted fact that she was extremely ill, nigh on invalid for much of her life. I know this is a small and extremely limited example, but it's clearly and completely wrong and it doesn't take any great debate of theology to explain. If you chose to believe that a book would only contain errors and false comments with a clear intent to discredit a belief in marginal comments, then that is your prerogative.
   
   I'm not even going to touch the labeling every non-Christian Fundamentalist religion in the world a cult issue.

5 comments about Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling.

1. I bought this book because I wanted to know more about Joseph Smith. I wanted to know why Mormons enthusiastically attest to their faith in him as a prophet of God. I'd done a little internet research but was frustrated by all the "noise" i.e. expressions of feeling, positive or negative, rather than fact.
   
   I learned of two books regarded seriously as historical: Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling and Fawn Brodie's No Man Know My History. Reviews say notwithstanding that both are good factual historical works both are biased: Fawn Brodie is apparently against Joseph Smith and Bushman is for Joseph Smith (Bushman is a Mormon). I haven't read Fawn Brodie's book yet and am still considering whether to or not.
   
   In Rough Stone Rolling Bushman is open about his bias. Page after page Bushman puts a spin of events in Joseph Smith's life that, despite controversy, leaves the reader thinking Joseph Smith could really be a prophet of God anyway. For example Bushman explains how Joseph as an adolescent and young man used his "gift" to try to find buried treasure. Joseph is portrayed as having a desire for wealth (owing to his family's indigent circumstances), but that this irreverent desire had to be overcome before God would allow Joseph Smith to become a prophet.
   
   In the end the reader is left to decide for themselves whether they believe Joseph Smith really did the work of God or not. I liked wondering whether it is true. I am glad I read this book. I believe I have gained a better understanding of the human condition. I recommend this book to anyone for or against Mormonism if they want more than just noise, i.e. if they want the truth.



2. Having previously read Fawn Brodie's No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, I read this one to get the believer's view. Bushman is at his best describing the evolution of Smith's thinking and revelations. Although the book is long, it is well written and authoritative. It gives a deeper understanding of Smith's religious philosophy than does Brodie's book.
   To his credit, Bushman confronts many of the crucial controversies surrounding Smith. From my non-believer's perspective, however, the defenses of Smith are not remotely convincing. Some examples:
   1. DNA analysis shows without question that the American Indians came from east Asia. This fact is in direct contradiction of the traditional LDS view that Native Americans are lost Israelites. Bushman argues that Smith may have been writing about a small tribe somewhere in New York, or about people outside North America altogether. Within a few pages, Bushman has forgotten about this controversy altogether, and happily describes the Book of Mormon as a history of the American Indians.
   2. Smith made the huge mistake of reproducing parts of the hieroglyphics he claims to have interpreted as the "Book of Abraham." These documents have been translated by scholars and have nothing to do with Abraham. Bushman (pp. 291-2) puts forth the argument that Smith's translation may not have been a true translation, but instead may have been a divine revelation simply inspired by the presence of the scrolls. Bushman suggests the same for the Book of Mormon. This is a truly shocking stance for an LDS believer to take: if Smith's "translations" weren't translations, why should anyone believe that his revelations were divinely inspired? Ironically, Bushman's view here sounds much like Brodie's: Not anticipating that scholars would use the Rosetta stone to translate hieroglyphics, Smith imagined that bogus translations would not be found out.
   3. Smith repeatedly lied about whether he and the Saints were practicing polygamy. Bushman's defense of Smith in this context reminds me of Bill Clinton's statements regarding Monica Lewinsky: Smith held a secret definition of the term "polygamy," and thus felt free to mislead (or lie) with impunity. The facts, as reported by both Brodie and Bushman, support the conclusion that Smith coerced women into his bed by arguing that their eternal salvation was at stake. The stain of Smith's lustful "revelation" regarding polygamy continues to haunt the LDS, which claims to recoil from earthly polygamy but argues that men (not women) get to have harems in heaven.
   Despite these complaints, I recommend this book to non-believers who are patient enough to get through it. I feel that I have much greater insight into the LDS mindset than I did before.



3. I also am studying the Mormons. Should I venture to say - studying the way God has provided a candle accross a night football field.
   
   Neuroplaticity - brain change from environment input. Brain grey/white thickness, hippocamus reshape/theta(memory - locations, scenes, color, smells, sounds), two stage memories ("visions"), pattern recognition (visions-imprint/representations)... Being a neural engineer putting probes in the ventral stream (cortex), getting image/time correlation through V1->V4. Lay speak- how does sight/sound get understood/retained?
   
   My thinking is Joeseph was on a very fast track. A lot of large stuff (Palmyra canal/ambitious family, Harmony, Harris etc., etc.) No societal concerns(read rouge?) being in poverty,but with extensivly developed genetic brain (6 generations?). I think God, please excuse the familiarity, replaced the distant candel with a spotlight strapped to his head, and used him until Joeseph burned out. He lost Emma, sad. God appears to have provided 30 vision channels, thick copper wires to Joeseph, with vision dumps.
   
   These concepts are overwhelming, even I hae a very hard time accepting this, and jumping off this cliff, letting God catch me in the responsibility net. 10 million mormons with priesthood responsibile for saving 5 billion Chinese, Hindus etc, I think I am quite comfy in my no responsibility 1 hour a week protesteant world. I can see why God cracked open the door to this lightning rod man... :)



4. Excellent book. Tells the story of a human being, with all the foibles and weaknesses that entails, who was learning to lead people in religion.



5. Bushman is no doubt an historian with enormous credibility.
   However, his book is for "Mormons in denial," or those folks who wanna feel like they're getting a scholarly scoop on this complex man-- who wanna feel like if this book sits on their shelf or even if they crack it and read it, that they've defended their faith.
   
   If you wanna know the REAL story of Joseph Smith Jr, who he was, what he REALLY did especially in those crucial early years, you MUST read An Insider's View of Mormon Origins by Grant H. Palmer, and Michael Quinn's masterwork, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View.

5 comments about No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith.

1. I don't have a problem with Mormons. Unlike other proselytizers, they're polite, not condescending, and they don't ask you if you think you're saved. One also can't help but be impressed by Salt Lake City, and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, their willingness to spend a year as missionaries and their elaborate social structure.
   
   However, I do have a small problem with Joseph Smith's claim that an angel told him where to find the golden plates on which the Book of Mormon was inscribed. I wanted to know what there was that tempted Smith's followers to embrace this sort of fantasy. Brodie, who was raised as a Mormon and was eventually excommunicated because of this work, does an excellent job answering that question. I thought she bent over backwards trying to be fair. Smith was born of a very poor family in Vermont and spent much of his youth in Palmyra, New York, where he became a treasure hunter, something like a "diviner." People were willing to pay him to hunt for treasure because of the rumors about gold and sliver being buried in the Indian mounds native to the area. Smith used a stone to help him "see" where the treasure was buried. Eventually this idea morphed into the discovery of the golden plates which became the Book of Mormon. Naturally, no one else could see the plates under threat of death if they tried (Eventually he did find three men to testify they'd seen them, but it took some "persuading." Even Smith's parents believed the plates were real, and he knew he was on to something. Here's where the fairness comes in. Brodie credits Smith with amazing talent in respect to improvisation and persuasiveness. Brodie credits Ethan Smith's VIEW OF THE HEBREWS; OR THE TEN TRIBES OF ISRAEL IN AMERICA as an "inspiration," for the Book of Mormon, but she also shows him dictating it to his secretaries, so, either he had an amazing memory or he wasn't faking. She also dispels some of exposes regarding Mormonism, namely The Spaulding-Rigdon Theory.
   
   Once Smith accumulated a wide following he moved his flock to Kirkland, Ohio, where he built his first temple. This was also where he received his first "revelation" regarding polygamy. Apparently the more wives you had, the more credit you received in heaven. His wife, Emma, however, was not convinced. She caught him with the poetess Eliza Roxey Snow, one of his first plural wives, and "flung her down the stairs and drove her out into the street."
   
   In some respects Smith was his own worst enemy. He antagonized the Missouri settlers, where some of his followers set up Zion, by forming a militia, and he took to calling himself Lieutenant General Joseph Smith. Smith was also unable to control a number of apostates who turned against him, publicizing the polygamy as well as some suspicious land deals.
   Brodie never does use the term megalomania, but there was no doubt Smith had a high opinion of himself. When the otherwise trustworthy William Law left the church and formed his own newspaper which was critical of Smith's dillydallying (This was in Nauvoo, Illinois, where Smith and his followers went after being driven out of Missouri), Smith had the press destroyed. Once again the settlers were outraged. They also weren't that fond of Smith's militia which he claimed was 100,000 strong and which he bragged would help him form a theocracy.
   
   Brodie has been accused of being one of the first psycho-biographers, but she doesn't do a whole lot of that until the Supplement, where she refers to something called "pseudologia fantastica." From this she infers that Smith was not necessarily a fraud, but a very conflicted man. In other words, Smith had sort of a split personality. On the surface he was a supremely confidant man, "focused and strongly assertive," underneath he was still the crude diviner who preyed on people's naiveté.



2. Whether you believe Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, a complete charlatan, or some mixture of the two does not change the fact that he is one of the most fascinating and underrated figures in American history. His life and the religion he founded say a lot about this country.
   
   This is the most famous (or infamous) biography of Joseph Smith. At the time of its publication it was a watershed event. No one with an 'outside' perspective had been given quite the access that Historian Fawn Brodie had.
   
   So after hearing all of the praise and condemnation heaped upon this book, what do I think? Pretty good, for the most part. Mrs. Brodie is a compelling storyteller. As a narrative, it has great flow and keeps your interest. From my perspective, the book's greatest strength is placing Joseph Smith's life within the context of the world views and cosmological theories prevalent in the United States in the early 19th Century. Some of Mrs. Brodie's sources ('Mormonism Unveiled' for example) have been largely discredited, so a careful reading is required, especially when considering the quotes of the some of the more vociferous opponents of Smith.
   
   Is Joseph Smith a true religious prophet or not? You definitely get the feeling that Mrs. Brodie does not think so, but even she is amazed at Joseph Smith's life and transformations.
   
   Historical books about religious figures are bound to be controversial. My advice would be read this book, as well as other about the life of Joseph Smith. But this book, although imperfect, is still an valuable and compelling part of the history of the history of Joseph Smith.



3. I found this book to be greatly informative and interesting. Great book!No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith



4. This book has been around a long time. It is one of the most quoted books on Mormon history. Some of the assumptions and some of the conjectures made have since been found to be a little off, the history that was written was a wonderfully accurate look at the man Joseph Smith Jr. Fawn Brodie is a noted historian and author. In the beginning of the book it seemed that Ms. Brodie was sympathetic to Joseph Smith and the Mormons. As her research and the book progressed, the tone became more negative, just as mine did through the research I did.



5. Because this book tells a story that many people may find offensive; I think it's best that there's different recommendations for different groups of people.
   For currently practicing Mormons who are happy in their religion:
   this probably isn't a book you want to read. Ms. Brodie talks about a lot of things that will be upsetting to you and your faith. If you're happy in your religion you might just prefer to stay away from this book.
   For non-Mormons:
   If you're interested in religion, charasmatic leaders and movements, or just like biographies I think you'll find this book very interesting and readable. Joseph Smith is an interesting historical character who was able to raise up a religion with thousands of followers around him which has grown into millions of adherents today. Much of that religion still gathers strength from Smith's charisma and personality. Understanding him better can help you learn so much more about personality, religion, and psychology. It's worth your time if you have any interest.
   For ex-Mormons and Mormons who aren't happy in their religion:
   This is the group that I fit into. This book helped me to finally break away from the Mormon church. There were so many things that never made sense, but once you can better understand Joseph Smith and how he founded his religion you can better understand Mormonism today. Knowing the truth about Mormonism makes it so much easier to to leave because when it comes down to it Joseph's stories were lies and he constantly did things to better his own position in life. Joseph Smith was the first major cult leader in America and understanding that can help you get away. So I definitely recommend this book for people who are having a difficult time leaving the church or have had a difficult time staying away.

5 comments about Daughter of the Saints: Growing Up In Polygamy.

1. I tore through this memoir in a couple of days. I could not put it down. This woman's account of her life as a fugitive and a "trouble maker" is incredible and heartwrenching. It's so much more interesting to me if I know someone actually went through this. I can't imagine ever living in the kind of poverty this family did, or having to share my father or see my mother's hidden tears when her husband went off with another wife (or 6) a few nights a week. Allred does a pretty thorough job going through the genealogy and geographic movements of her family and it only serves to bring the tale even more to life. I'm sure I could go read newspaper articles about all she mentioned, and read the very journal Byron wrote in his travels. It's great to be able to trace everything all over the US and watch the world change around the family and the church and yet nothing ever really changes for them. I very much recommend this book to anyone looking to find out more about this controversial issue. See it from the eyes of a young girl lost in a sea of many.



2. The narrative of this work is touchingly honest and entirely realistic. I've read a few books during my Utah vacation, all about polygamy, and this one is the most tasteful and the most relevant as a complete story of how this lifestyle affects one's being. Highly recommended, more compelling and meaningful than the sensationalist Krakour [?] text.



3. This is the second book I have read about polygamy. This is completely foreign to my Protestant upbringing. I have seen people caught in a cult situation before. My neighbors when I was a young child were not allowed to celebrate Christmas, salute the flag, or celebrate any other holidays.
   I will not mention there religion. Inside their home terrible things were happening to their children. I didn't find out about it until I was a grown woman.
   
   This is the type of thing that Dorothy Solomon is talking about. She had a good mother. She was aware that the other children called them names. She knew other children had only one set of parents. Her father was married to 7 women. She believed as she was taught. She believed in polygamy. As she grows older she sees the sorrow in the women around her who are not honored by this state of affairs. Her parents had been arrested and they had to go into hiding as children. She even discusses incest in such an environment. It obviously is not a good environment for a woman to feel any equality with a man in. When more groups form a terrible thing happens to her father. The book is fascinating. A real page turner.
   She horrifies her family by joining the regular Church of the Latter Day Saints. She marries only once and has children. She is a strong person.
   Thank you for showing us a world that most will never see. You have without a doubt helped other women trapped in this situation.



4. This has been an excellent book to read. I was looking for material to inform myself better about polygamy. I found "Daughter of the Saints" and could hardly put it down until I finished. The author is so real, and has such a beautiful way of writing her feelings that it really got to me. I love the balance that comes out of all the narrative--the good and the bad. I admire the courage to tell these experiences, and to be so honest about it to us the readers. I learned a lot from this book, and really enjoyed it. It was a memoir that made me live the scenes. I found a deeper understanding for polygamy without having to read scandalous material, or a document biased completely towards the negative or positive aspects of it. I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about polygamy--what better way than to read a book by someone who has lived it.



5. This is the same book as "Predators, Prey, and Other Kinfolk: Growing up in Polgamy" by the same author. I didn't know that and bought both of them.
   
   Ms. Solomon is telling her story here and I do recommend you read it. I found the book boring and tedious in places and found myself wanting to skip ahead to get to the "meat" of the story. However, I read every page. It's good though to read her experience in polygamy.
   
   I found myself asking questions about the underpinnings of Mormonism and it's relation to polygamy, (and in a general way the notion of religious beliefs around the world.) Reading through the writings of Joseph Smith, Mormonism's founder, I got a definite idea of what he thought about polygamy. About 50 or so years later the Mormon church, under state and federal pressure, made certain declarations regarding polygamy. In light of the several (now) books on polygamy by ex-members of various splinter groups, and with events regarding the FLDS in Texas, it does make one wonder who is following the true, revealed, laws of Mormonism. If you find this an interesting question, you may wish to read some of those original writings on your own and come to your own conclusion.

No comments about When Men Become Gods: Mormon Polygamist Warren Jeffs, His Cult of Fear, and the Women Who Fought Back.

5 comments about God's Brothel: The Extortion of Sex for Salvation in Contemporary Mormon and Christian Fundamentalist Polygamy and the Stories of 18.

1. I'm giving this book a 5-star rating, because I think everyone should read it. It's an important book.
   
   However, I have to warn you: these stories are angry. Say it again in a high-pitched, Margaret Cho-like screech--These stories are ANNN-GRY!!
   
   I suppose that anger is the emotion you feel most after a lifetime of abuse, so I guess it makes sense.
   
   As far as I can tell, this is a book about abuse. However, I think this book tried to take on way too may topics. I was left with these questions, which I think are all of the topics the book tried to tackle.
   
   Is the book trying to be critical of the Mormons for no longer practicing polygamy?
   Are they trying to be critical of the Mormons for not supporting anti-polygamist efforts more?
   Is the book trying to stop underage marriages in polygamist groups?
   Is the book trying to stop polygamy from ever happening?
   Is the book trying to outlaw polygamy?
   Is the book trying to inform the public about polygamist culture?
   Is the book trying to stop incest?
   Is the book trying to stop marriages that would result in incest (first cousins or closer)?
   Is the book trying to be critical of the state of Utah?
   Is the book trying to criticize the Mormon Church for distancing itself from polygamy?
   Is the book trying to get people to donate to Tapestry Against Polygamy?
   Is the book trying to pressure people once heavily involved in Tapestry Against Polygamy to return to working more for Tapestry Against Polygamy?
   Is the book trying to talk about the prevalence of polygamy in the US and Mexico?
   Is the book trying to say that men are bad?
   Is the book trying to say that men, when in a polygamist religion, will eventually turn into abusive molesters?
   Is the book trying to say that polygamists should use doctors?
   Is the book trying to expose the covered-up deaths of some polygamists?
   Is the book trying to expose tax fraud in polygamist religions?
   Is the book trying to vilify all polygamist leaders?
   Is the book trying to let polygamist women know that they can marry who they love instead of their old uncle?
   Is the book trying to let polygamist women know how to escape?
   
   I don't know. I really don't know. I couldn't put the book down, but the content confused me.
   
   I think it would have been better this book had been just about one topic, or even limited to two, three, or four topics. Then, this book might have actually made a difference. This book has a very low likelihood of making a difference because it's really just a "rant" book.
   
   Each of the 18 chapters is supposed to tell a story about a woman. Really each chapter is only 1/4 the woman's story and the rest additional commentary. The content of this book really seemed like the story of one women rather than the story of eighteen women. But, I couldn't tell for sure.
   
   I was left wondering what was factual in this book. I attribute this to the book trying to tackle so many different topics at one time.
   
   I could only conclude one thing for sure about polygamy from this book--that in polygamy a man will sleep with only one wife at a time. That was a question I had, and this book answered it.
   
   I also need to mention the title--the title has nothing to do with the book. It's only there to provide a shocking title so that people will read the book
   
   One of the basics about abuse is that abuse is not about sex to the abuser; it has to do with control and power. The title is probably harmful in that it seems to indicate that the rape and molestation are more about sex than about control and power.
   
   Overall, though, you should read this book. Hopefully this book spurs many more books to be written, and hopefully they're a lot more focused.



2. I read this book last year and I couldn't put it down.
   
   The film, BANKING ON HEAVEN, is now available on Amazon. Check it out!



3. 
   
   I was very impressed with the research into the various groups who practice Pologmy worldwide. This book has a map showing where these groups are thoughout the USA, and if they are Christian, Muslim or Fundamentalist Morman. She does explain that the Modern LDS church DOES NOT condone Pologamy, and explains why some groups continue to believe that this is the only way to heaven.
   
   The first part of this book is a history of Pologamy, and gives a summary of many groups and how and why they got started. She makes it very clear that this is not just a "Morman" occurance, but rather widely practiced in many religions.
   
   The second part contains 18 stories of women and girls from various groups who have chosen to withdrawal from this lifestyle, and have begun to speak out what their experience were, and how it affected them and their families. It is an eye-opening group of stories, allowing the reader inside the walls of the groups.
   
   The people who become involved in these groups come to a believe that this lifestyle will be an escape from the stressful way the modern American lives. It appears to be a close knit family, pulling their money together, avoiding outside stressors, and living a Godly life in order to obtain lasting life in the hear-after.
   
   Perhaps there are many groups who do practice the above: however, what this book tells is the stories where the system has gone corrupt, forcing girls as young as 12 into marriages, demanding they have a child a year, discarding males, and using the public welfare system to support the children. Education is withheld, and attempting to leave the groups can become a deadly game for the women and children.
   
   I recommend this book for anyone interested in studying this lifestyle because it tells stories of all religious pologmany groups, and you hear the actual stories of 18



4. The subject matter is highly disturbing and a must read for anyone who thinks that this sort of horror only goes on in backwards third world countries. The writing is uneven but the content makes up for it's faults. I was angry for days.



5. I finally got this book after reading other books dealing with these problems and all internet articles I could find for three years regarding the fundamentalist Mormons in the US and Canada.
   
   I do not understand why a lot more has not been done to stop such outrageous practices as have been well documented by this author. I was in Utah a few years ago, prior to doing the reading I have since done, and there I saw headlines regarding the childbride problem and actual communities I now know are polygamist enclaves. (I noticed the poverty and backwardness in some areas and already had assumed the isolation and deprivation of polygamy could be the cause.)
   
   It is sickening to know that US citizens, born here for generations back, are suffering in all these ways because the states involved will not prosecute when "religious beliefs" cross the other existing laws made to protect the innocent and naive. This book should be required for all Utah and Arizona legislators, and unfortunately, also now Texas, Colorado, Canada, Montana, and Wyoming. This is a dreadful thing to allow to continue in our great nation.

5 comments about Shattered Dreams: My Life as a Polygamist's Wife.

1. This was a great book! Irene details her live from her childhood to the end of her marriage with her polygamist husband. The book is not filled with strong words against polygamy per-se. Instead, Irene shows us, through her life, why polygamy is problematic. I wish it was longer!



2. Especially in view of recent events in Texas, this book is a should-read for everyone. I was a mainstream Mormom for 10 years, and THAT society is patriarchal enough, but what I found utterly chilling is that fundamentalist Mormonism is extraordinarily similar to many aspects of ISLAM. I wish everyone who feels inclined to accept 'freedom of religion' excuses, or who feels sorry for sect mothers in Texas crying for their children, would read this book, and Carolyn Jessop's "Escape" and Susan Ray Schmidt's "His Favorite Wife". Fundamentalist Mormonism takes freedom of religion WAY beyond individual rights, and mothers have a duty to protect their children from all kinds of abuse, and these three books just rip the lid off what really goes on (one of the books also makes clear that among other things, there is rampant, officially-sanctioned cruelty to animals going on for which there should be NO excuse). No great literary style but a great source of information. A Can't-Put-Downer book.



3. I can't say enough good things about this book. It was so enthralling that I read it in two days. A true page turner in every sense of the phrase. I read it and then eagerly passed it on to my book loving sister to read. She loved it as well. Seriously...BUY THIS BOOK!



4. I really enjoyed this book. I couldnt put it down. It was amazing to hear about this womans struggles and hardships. It made me truely appreciate my husband and how blessed we are. I have recomended it to everyone that I know.



5. After the raid on the FLDS camp in Texas (April 2008), I set about to find out what these people and their religion is all about.
   I first read "Escape" by Caroline Jessop and I finally could breathe when she and her children were safe from the perils of living a plural marriage with her husband.
   "Shattered Dreams" was a book that I really got into as I lived and died each calamity of povery, loneliness, and hurt that Irene experienced in her 'marriage' to Verlan
   as he erroneously tried to control his burgeoning family
   until he could get them all into the kingdom of God.
   My heart went out to Verlan because he was living and working in all that he knew and his responsibility to
   each endeavor and to his family was just more than any one human should ever undertake. This is the error of the teaching of plural marriages.
   I probably will not ever get to meet Irene on this earth but thanks to her genuine conversion into Christianity, I know I will be living an eternity of time 'over there' where we both will be and I'd just love to give her a great big hug of love as my Christian sister.
   My word to Irene is this "Sister, enjoy whatever time of life you have on this earth for you have truly earned it and it is good to know that you finally have a person who loves you unconditionally just as Jesus loves us".

5 comments about His Favorite Wife: Trapped in Polygamy.

1. I've been reading a lot about polygamy as all these cases in the media unfold... Under the Banner and Shattered Dreams by Irene Spencer. She was the 2nd wife and Susan was the 5th. The stories are different because, even though they all had children by the same man, they had different living arrangements and marriages. Both are really good books. It makes a great memoir... fascinating.



2. This is an absorbing and fascinating book based on the author's life as she lived it. You do not want to miss this true story! I could not put it down! I was left wanting more and more information about the author's life, her children and the legacy of FLDS cult that dominated her life and so many others. It was easy to read, written in an unaffected manner, sometimes humorous sometimes devastating in its truth. I was drawn into the story and felt like I knew Susan and all those around her. This is a great story that will have you thinking about the true impact of FLDS and the Mormom church especially as current events uncover crimes within the fundamentalist church.



3. This was a good book, but Susan didn't share as much of the emotional side of polygamy as I had hoped. For a better read on the subject, read Shattered Dreams by Irene Spencer. It's definitely worth your money.



4. Susan has written a powerful book. Though not a professional writer, she indeed must have "innate" writing talent to so skillfully tell the story and describe in such an understandable way some of her most sublime feelings. As others have noted, this story has it all. Personal crisis, despair, doubt, strength, adventure, danger, murder, power struggles within the church--really, it's all there. Making the story all the more intriguing is that it is true. She tells her personal story as at age 15 she becomes the 6th (plural) wife of one of the church leaders. Enduring the worst third world poverty at times, yearning for a true marriage, remaining steadfast through extraordinarily difficult circumstances, and finally overcoming the notion that women could not and should not think through their situation themselves are some of her challenges. At one point a power struggle within the church leads to murder and attempted murder of people she knows well. It is a saga of courage, strength, steadfastness, and finally the victory of reason over blind obedience. Her message has appeal for everyone. Another reviewer has said it should be made into a movie, and indeed it would be a fascinating story to see portrayed on the screen. Buy the book, you will not be able to put it down.



5. I bought this and another book about polygamy (Escape by Carolyn Jessop), because of the current situation in El Dorado, Texas, and I hoped to gain some insight from those who have been on the inside.
   
   I couldn't put this book down as I found Susan's story riveting, amazing, unbelievable, interesting, tragic, inspiring, thought provoking, soul searching, and more. It is a very moving story.
   
   I think having some hint of an idea of what goes on "inside" some of these groups helps those of us on the "outside" to be better equipped to understand some of the actions being taken, and pause to give real thought to what is the "right" or "best" thing to do. There are no easy answers or solutions, for sure. Nobody wants to see children taken away from loving mothers, but at the same time, we want to protect woman and children who may not be in the position to protect themselves, particularly when it comes to physical and sexual abuse of children. There are certainly many complex issues in all of this, but I think it is at least time to keep the spot light on until there are thorough investigations.
   
   In any case, I'm so happy that Susan wrote this book. Her story is incredible, and I highly recommend it to anybody who is interested at all in learning more about polygamy. While I thought Jessop's book, Escape, was also very interesting, and more closely related to the group in Texas in time and space~ I definitely found His Favorite Wife to be a much more interesting story and the style more readable for me, too.
   
   I have a feeling I'll be reading a few more books on this subject... after learning Irene has written Shattered Dreams. It goes beyond morbid curiousity, because there are so many real life and spiritual issues that come to light in these books that apply to some degree to all of us.
   
   I'm not in any book clubs, but I would absolutely recommend this book to those of you who are. It would provide a foundation for many interesting discussions~
   
   And I want to know how they ever got all of Verlan's daughters together for a cruise!

5 comments about Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith.

1. I am serious that the History of the Mormon church is years of material for Saturday Night Live.
   Couple of ideas for skits:
   Joseph Smith (founder of the LDS) is married and after a few years his eyes start wandering, so he tells his wife God has told him to take on more wives. The wife is mad and threatens to take on more husbands, Joe doesn't like that, so he tells his wife that God told him that if a wife takes on another man she will go to hell for ever ! Nice.
   
   The locals don't like Joes unfaithfull ways, and drag him out of his bed, into the woods at night with the plan to castarate him - they even had a doctor along. Once Joe is stripped naked, and spread eagle the doctor can't go thru with it, and instead they beat Joe up badly and then tar and feather him.
   
   Currently, various Fundemnetalist mormon church off shoots all have a leader that claim to be ' the mighty and strong one' - that is the guy who is immortal and will be present during the second coming ( or something like that) - well the followers all flip out when their annoited immortal leader dies.
   
   The book covers a double homicide that took place in 1984. The two brothers that commited the crime are arrested, and after one beats the other one while in the same cell, they are put in adjacent cells. some days pass and one brother tells the other brother that God told him that he needs to kill him. So they discuss the best way to do the killing, and decide to have the one to die back up to the bars while the other one strangles him to death. They then proceed to follow thru the plan.
   
   Mormons might feel picked on by this book, but I see it as a book about religion, and what it does to people. There are Mormons that are completely nuts, just like the 9/11 moslem bombers.
   
   Krakauer writes this book in a similar style to Into the Wild. He mentions a couple other books about the LDS which I plan on reading.



2. I am fascinated with different religious sects and I must admit that the Mormon Church has always seemed to be founded on bizarre circumstances by some questionable characters. This book kept my interest and the history of the founders was interesting and disturbing. I soon became confused with the geneology of the family members of the FLDS in Colorado and Utah. No wonder genealogy is so important to the Mormon's how else could the keep up with their blood lines.
   
   I don't think that it is fair to paint todays LDS members with the same brush as the FLDS and the early "church" which I think the author is attempting to do. Unfortunately, the majority who are good citizens with a strong (admirable) sense of family are tainted by the few whackos who make all the news.



3. This book is a must read for anyone interested in reading a non-biased historical account of the Latter Day Saints. The parallel of events which occurred in the development of Mormanism as compared to the development of Islam are of a striking similarity.
   
   Jon Krakauer is truly an amazing author and story teller.



4. Although I am only 30 pages into this book, which takes place primarily in Arizona, the details of previous raids on FLDS compounds are shockingly similar to what is currently happening in Eldorado, TX--including how the press is presenting this group as being persecuted for their religion when in fact, the FDLS is guilty of heinous crimes against its female members, who are little more than breeding stock. What FLDS members present to the networks and media may not be at all what goes on behind those locked and closed doors. Read this book.



5. I have read a lot of books on Mormonism that this is one of the best. That's because the author choose to wrap the story of Mormonism around some of it's best known and most gripping triumphs, tragedies, atrocities, and scandals.
   
   I listened to the Audiobook and, frankly, I could hardly wait to drive to work so I could get through just another chapter. I can't recommend this book highly enough.
   
   Other Audio Books on Mormonism that I have enjoyed include:
   
   Leaving the Saints: How I Lost the Mormons and Found My Faith
   
   Secret Ceremonies
   
   Other books on Mormonism that I recommend include:
   
   The Pattern of The Double-Bind in Mormonism
   
   No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith
   
   The Mountain Meadows Massacre
   
   Beyond Mormonism : An Elder's Story
   
   Mormonism, Mama & Me
   
   Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon?: The Spalding Enigma
   
   Mormonism 101: Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints
   
   Mormonism Unveiled: The Life and Confession of John D. Lee, Including the Life of Brigham Young

5 comments about Escape.

1. This book was definitely a page turner, particularly once I got to half of the book. I'm a Christian and I was surprised that they didn't even use scripture to support their beliefs. Everything was inspired by the whims of the prophets. They kept the people ignorantby not allowing any type of media on the premises so that the men didn't have problems with unquestioned authority. There was definitely a heirarchy among the sister wives and I was appalled by the physical abuse of the little children and babies by the sister wives. This was called discipline? This book is a shocker and will give anyone a better understanding of what is going on today in the media regarding the FLDS and the LFZ group.



2. This book will tug at your heart from the first page through the last. It is appalling to think that so many are still living through the nightmare which Ms. Jessop was somehow (despite her upbringing) resilient enough to overcome. She should be commended for her courage in sharing her story with so many. Have the tissues ready and be ready for a long night because you won't want to put this book down.



3. This book was so interesting it could not put it down. I read it in just two short days. I found this woman's story fascinating and it was very interesting to hear the behind the scene stories of some of the characters talked about on the news such as creepy Warren Jeffs.



4. After reading the reviews I was hestitant to buy this book. However, I am so glad I did! It was a great view into the secret world of the FLDS. I honestly could not put the book down and read it during one weekend! A good wake-up call with a happy ending.



5. I couldn't put this book down and finished it in two days. After the recent events in Texas, I became interested in what the FDLS was all about. I read Carolyn Jessop's book and highly recommend. After reading this book, my heart really goes out to Carolyn and my admiration for this woman is beyond words. I just finished the last chapter and I can't even imagine what she has gone through to come this far. I feel as if I know her as she bared her many struggles in this memoir. I wish the best to her and her children and hope they find true happiness ahead.