3 comments about On Justice, Power, and Human Nature: The Essence of Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War.

1. I can't think of another abridgment of a classic more after my own heart. I am a passionate believer in reading all of Thucydides, but this book is still the ideal way to get to know what is great about the historian. (And, as our democracy is at war & struggles with imperial entanglements, Thuc. is more relevant than ever.)

   Basically, Woodruff has an unerring instinct for where Thucydides (not a mere fact-compiler, but one of antiquity's great thinkers) is at his sizzling & profound best. The introduction is a marvelous piece of criticism and analysis: in merely 24 pp. it acquaints the reader with Thucydides' important ideas. The idea of this book is to give you 185 pp. to read cover-to-cover (if not in a single sitting!--what are you waiting for?--do it, and blow your mind). Woodruff's connecting summaries & brief introductory comments to each excerpt make sure that readers will experience the whole coherently.

   My one quibble is that I'd like to have the defeat of the Sicilian Expedition & its aftermath in all its gruesome detail, but this would have almost doubled the size of the book and defeated the purposes I've praised above. For a complete translation, try Lattimore (also pub. by Hackett)--or, if 17th c. English doesn't bother you, Hobbes' translation is a real treat to savor.




2. I agree with the first reviewer: this book is a great condensation of Thucydides' work. The book is editted to retain all of Thucydides' great insights into human nature, power, and politics, but summarized in a way where all of the essential details of the story are left in place.

   With its sweeping description of events in various areas of the Greece, and its dramatic portrayal of historic figures: the book works as a great description of the nature of politics, democracy and war, and at the same time an engaging study of leadership, and the men who were perported to be great during these times.

   Daniel Clausen
   danielclausen.com




3. The greatest of all Greek historians was the Athenian general Thucydides (455-400 B.C.E.). Thucydides' classic work, "History Of The Peloponnesian War", provides us with the historical framework for 5th century Greece, a golden age of intellectual achievement and creativity rarely equaled in human history. This history is by far the best account of the bitter war between Athens and Sparta as well as the only surviving contemporary record of the rise of the Athenian empire. Thucydides as a master storyteller does not just cover the battle scenes; he records the great political speeches of Pericles, leader of Athens, and Lysander leader of Sparta with great acumen. He is recognized as the first historian to actually go and get eyewitness accounts, visit battlefieilds and research documents and records. This work took him over 20 years and it shows!
   
   The lessons he teaches about imperial over reaching and unreasonable peace settlements are prescient today as they were during his times. President Woodrow Wilson, read this book on his voyage across the Atlantic to the Versailles Peace Conference and vociferously fought the other Allies in making unreasonable demands of the Germans. Wilson learned the dangers that the world would be placed in by backing the Germans into a corner politically and economically from Thucydides book.
   
   I never before recommended reading an abridged work of history; however, Paul Woodruff does the best job of abridging Thucydides that I have ever come across in historical texts. He gives you the basic narrative and makes sure to include all of the important orations and debates from the original work.
   
   As a graduate student in philosophy and history, I heartily recommend this timeless classic to anyone who is interested in political philosophy, and history. I also recommend you read it with David Cartwright's "A Historical Commentary On Thucydides."

1 comments about The Peloponnesian War (Oxford World's Classics).

1. THE PELOPONESIAN WAR by Thucydides. Written a very long time ago. In the aftermath of Athens saving Western civilization not once but twice from Eastern totalitariansism and barbarism, the rest of Greece......now that the coast was clear and acting out of extreme jealousy and lack of gratitude, declared war on Athens. No good deed goes unpunished. Extremely difficult reading. One needs a scorecard to keep track of all the players. Easy to see why it has never been filmed or dramatized in anyway. Still worth the effort and a major historical work by the man credited with being the father of the modern history writing. Not so much a war but a civilization literally committing suicide. Greece has been a backwater ever since and man are they still sensitive about that!!!

5 comments about A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War.

1. 
   This is a great effort from a prolific and serious writer of history. I have read many books on the Greek wars during the 5th and 4th centuries B.C. and this is so all inclusive that it is a must read.



2. In school, we are taught that the Greeks praised order, were interested only in the most lofty human qualities, and were examples to be followed. The only thing that has shattered this Winckelmannian myth of the Apollinian quality of Greek society was Nietzsche's radical idea that the Greeks went crazy once a year in Spring during their Dionysian rites. Of course, once this Dyonisian urge had been exorcised, the Greeks went back to developing complex epistemological arguments, inventing new sciences, and perfecting the Democratic forms of government. As Victor Davis Hanson argues, the reality of Greek life was far less pretty, in fact, reading passages from his account of the Peleoponnesian War made clear to me that the Greeks belonged to a society whose violence goes far beyond anything we can imagine. In some sense, the Athenians not only reflected the violent nature of 5th century B.C. warfare, but also innovated in forms of cruelty with their "total war" on whole cities, including the mass slaughter of innocents. In comparison, Oedipus' or Medea's crimes almost pale in comparison.
   Today, we are involved in some messy wars. Victor Davis Hanson reminds us that war was always messy, and dispels any Romantic notions we might have of "elevated" Greek hoplite war.



3. The two wars fought by the classical Greeks against the Persian Empire showed the power of the Greek phalanx to reach a decisive victory by combat on the battlefield. The agrarian landowner hoplite sallied forth in the appropriate season to engage in a mutually agreed location for combat to resolve an issue with a normal combat casualty percentage of about 10%. Victory usually was considered final, the dead returned to the losers and civilians were not involved.
   Hanson tells the story of the Peloponnesian War where Western Warfare changed forever away from such engagements, of which only two occurred during the twenty-seven years the war was fought, to a combination of total war, insurgency, siege warfare, raiding, and a myriad of other lethal alternatives. Victory was no longer necessarily considered to be decisive in addressing the issues the war was being fought over, indeed such victories like the siege of Plataea do not advance the cause of the victors whatsoever. The war between the two great contending alliances of Athens and Sparta involves many false steps. Hanson shows that the defeat of Athens is brought about more by a deadly plague and an ill conceived invasion of Sicily than by Spartan force of arms. The final victory of a Spartan fleet financed by the very Persians whose earlier invasions had united almost all Greece doomed not only Athens, but all Greece to a decline taken advantage of by the Macedonians and later the Romans.
   Hanson tells the story of this change in the way the Greeks fought and places its importance in context more than merely giving a chronological accounting of the war, something already done well by other authors. The book provides an excellent account of late fifth century Greek warfare which is accessible to most readers. Individuals knowledgeable of fifth century Greek and/or more general military history will be particularly rewarded for reading this book as it brings an expanded appreciation of the significance of this change, particularly in the evolution to come of Philip's and Alexander's armies.



4. Before I decided to review this excellent book I read some of the other reviews. Man, there are some very intelligent people who added comments: no false modesty here. Thus, I will refrain from an exercise in redundancy and point you to those excellent reviews below.
   
   That said, let me add to the discussion a few of the most notable and abiding impressions I received from the book:
   
   1) homo sapiens is still homo sapiens. That is, this was one stupid war. Stupid. Alas, stupid people still fight stupid wars and unfortunately will for another 2400 years as well. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?
   
   2) It was fascinating to see the implicit and explicit struggle between the democracy of Athens and the oligarchy of Sparta. Which one was best? Today the answer seems much more obvious, but in the fifth century b.c. democracy was very experimental, frail and possibly forever doomed to failure--and Sparta would have loved to have made Athens exhibit 1A for that argument. And, as the book clearly shows repeatedly, the democratic Athenians weren't exactly epitomes of fairness and brotherhood. The clash between the two city-states was also an exercise in elitism: both city-states had plenty of politicians and common folk who thought that they were better than the other city-state.
   Seriously, psychologists could have a field day discussing why these two city-states, who had no real need to fight one another did so anyway to the horror and destruction of many.
   
   3) I have long wondered why there are so many colleges and high-schools have the name "Spartans" as their namesake (like my kids' high school.) The real Spartans made redneck plantation owners of the antebellum South look kind and thoughtful to their fellow humans. The next time you watch "300" remember that those well-built, seemingly noble and self-sacrificing Spartans had to become terrorists, murderers and immature husbands and fathers before they could die so "nobly" at Thermopylae.
   
   4) Thank God the Athenians-and democracy- wasn't entirely wiped out.
   
   What a stupid war. What a great book. Both thumbs up.
   
   By the way, get the hardback edition because it's a very well-made book and getting it used should be as inexpensive as getting a paperback now.



5. Professor Hanson has written an important book about the Peloponnesian War with "A War Like No Other." In this enjoyable yet dense work, Hanson closely examines the war from a different perspective - approaching it in terms of themes and concepts rather than in a chronological fashion. The result is an enjoyable yet illuminating read that sheds new light on one of the Western world's most famous wars.
   
   Full disclosure - I studied ancient Greece extensively in college, which sadly was more than a few years ago. As a result, I've read my Thucydides as well as Donald Kagan's magnificent four-volume series about the war. While many of the details have grown more than a little foggy, I've managed to retain a working knowledge of the war and many of the forgotten events came back to me while reading Hanson's book.
   
   Unfortunately, this background knowledge of the War is essential as Hanson presumes that the reader is already familiar with many of the events and characters who walked across history's stage during this conflict. I would imagine that a reader who picks this up as his or her introduction to the War would be greatly confused by Hanson's organization and explanation of the war. For all the book's strengths - and there are many, including such common-sense observations as noting how impossible it was for anyone, including the Spartan army, to raze millions of olive trees, a tree as difficult to eradicate as bamboo - it remains a book for those who already know more than a little about the War.
   
   By approaching the War thematically (chapters are entitled "Walls," "Horses," etc.), Hanson jumps around quite a bit. One chapter can focus on Periclean strategy and the next shift to the rise of Thebes after the War. While the book is brilliantly constructed and, thanks to Hanson's writing, the ideas flow smoothly, without that familiarity with the subject matter I would guess the reader would be lost.
   
   And so it is that I only give this book four stars. If you're a student of history and well-versed in your ancient sources, this is most likely a five-star book - but it is not a one-volume stand-alone history of the War, and it is marketed as such.

4 comments about The Landmark Thucydides.

1. You should buy the hardcover book and not the paperback edition of this book. The paperback edition falls apart when you read it. This translation of Thucydides's history of the Peloponnesian War is outstanding. The text has numerous maps that help the reader locate the areas Thucydides is writing about. I found Thucydides's use of the speeches to provide a better understanding of the key persons and the motives of the nations at war to be suberb. I urge the reader to pay particular to Pericles furneral speech after the first of the war and the Melian Dialogue[Book Five] This book has many lessons we can learn today. Buy It



2. Torture is how I'd describe trying the read through this book. Unlike Stassler's Landmark Herodotus, in which someone did a new easy to read translation, in this edition of Thucydides, Strassler uses a very old, cumbersome translation and makes some (probably very minor) changes--we are told.
   
   The content, Thucydides' first hand account of the Peloponnesian War, kept me going, but it wasn't easy. There is an abundance of excellent maps and footnotes indicating where every anthill was located (I can't imagine reading Thucydides without knowing the geography), but the footnotes are otherwise totally devoid any higher level explanation of the text. This is also a serious shortcoming of the book.
   
   There is a very good introduction and several short, well-written 2 to 4 page chapters at the end of the book on various themes, though what's sorely needed is some good explanation in the meat of the text. Unfortunately, reading another version of the text but relying on the Landmark edition for figuring out where the locations are is overly burdensome. The jumping from location to location in the text didn't bother me as far as being able to follow the action, though others did mention this as a problem--something they'd have to take up with Thucydides, not Strassler.
   
   If you are reading this on your own I highly recommend an 18-CD lecture series put out by The Teaching Company on the Peloponnesian War that is fantastic. I highly recommend it, especially if you are reading Thucydides on your own.
   
   Good luck!



3. Quibbles with the translation used aside, I believe this book exemplifies how all history, especially ancient history, should be presented. Too often an author tells a story with place names that cannot be found on a map; even more common, no maps are offered in a book. It's worse with ancient texts, since many of the place names no longer exist.
   
   This book, however, solves those issues. The reader can actually use the numerous maps to follow along with the history. When I first ran across this book I was almost stunned when I realized that all history books up to this one could have been presented this way but weren't. I think the authors (and publisher) have done a great service to this classic text. And now that I see that they have released The Landmark Herodotus, I have even more hope that the classics will be re-released in the future in this more accessible format.
   
   If you have even a passing interest in this topic, I would highly recommend this version of Thucydides. Presented in this format, the story of the Peloponnesian War becomes easy to follow and more interesting than ever.



4. The book arrived within the timeframe that was specified and the book was in good condition.

5 comments about The History of the Peloponnesian War: Revised Edition (Penguin Classics).

1. I will not cover the historical significance of this text; it's been done elsewhere, better than I could. I will say, however, that it's been a hoot to hear it read out loud. My 10th grade son is reading it to me, and we laugh often at the author's quirks. It's like listening to grandpa tell tales of the old day, with many round-abouts and never-the-lesses. If not for the history, read it for the storytelling within.



2. The Histories of Herodotus are, without a doubt, one of the premier sources in any study of the antiquities. Spanning hundreds of years, Herodotus provides a rich narrative of the Aegean and eastern Mediterranean region during the height of the Greek and Medo-Persian empires. The focus begins in Lydia and Media, then shifts briefly to Egypt before ultimately settling on an extended account of Xerxes' invasion of Greece and the events leading up to that war. The cultures of Greece, Egypt and especially Persia are highlighted, along with the geography of Greece, Asia Minor and the Black Sea region.
   
   Key players in the narrative start with Lydian kings like Astyages and Croesus, but quickly shift focus to the Persian dynasty that included the likes of Cyrus, Cambyses, Darius and Xerxes. Certain personalities among the Greeks and Ionians also figure prominently at various points, such as Periander and Themistocles. Critical battles like Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and Plataea are recounted in some detail.
   
   My only complaint is that Herodotus is very rambling and often disjointed in his presentation. He is prone to excessive digression (in my opinion) and frequently leads his readers on merry rabbit chases to set up some background information for a particular tale that he is about to relate. Thankfully all his digressions eventually work their way back around, but I personally found this a bit distracting and occasionally hard to follow. On a final note, I would add that The Histories are not light reading, but definitely worth the time investment for any lover of history.



3. While I found the material entertaining and the translation laudable, I can't help but criticize the format of this work in light of similar, but better, editions. I speak specifically of "The Landmark Herodotus," by Strassler. I haven't actually read the work, but I've read its counterpart, "The Landmark Thucydides," and found it to be a large improvement over similar editions.
   
   This book is easy enough to follow, but at times drags on. If you don't mind having a larger book in front of you, I recommend the Strassler edition, which features extensive maps and footnotes (this work only had endnotes).



4. As others have noted below , reading Herodotus is a mixed experience. On the one hand he is a fascinating story teller and hearing about the ancients and the places they inhabited from him is endlessly entertaining. On the other hand he tends to go off on long tangents in order to set up a specific incident and at times the book drags.
   I personally found the penguin edition and the Selincourt translation fine as an introduction but as I got about halfway through I found the absence of maps and foot notes a bit distracting as place names became more obscure to me. I then paged through a copy of the Landmark Herodotus and realized that the experience of reading this would be better with the added illustration and annotations so I switched.
   Nevertheless the Penguin is a smaller more portable version that is serviceable enough.



5. I was recently doing research on the Pharoahs of Egypt and I kept finding references to Herodotus'Fifth Century BC book THE HISTORIES. I felt it important to read this biography, as he is considered "The Father Of History." During the golden age of Greece he was there to travel throughout the Mediterranean world, visiting Egypt, Africa, Persia,the Black Sea and the city states of Greece. Both amusing and sometimes credulous he records myth and fact as he uncovered it.For any student, young or old with an interest in where it all began, I recommend this book.

3 comments about Thucydides: The Reinvention of History.

1. Undoubtedly Thucydides ranks among the greatest of historians. Indeed, he probably deserves to be recognized as the founder of modern history ("modern" in this case meaning a wide-ranging, fundamentally objective analysis of events). His great work on the Peloponnesian War is unmatched in its long-reaching influence. Thucydides' depiction of the great 5th century BC war between Athens and Sparta has for more than two millenia formed the basis for viewing and understanding those events. Very likely no single other work of history has ever had such an impact in forming future perception of events. In "Thucydides: The Reinvention of History", Donald Kagan -- the pre-emininent modern historian of the Peloponnesian War -- examines Thucydides' work in light of Thucydides' own claims of cool objectivity; Kagan ably demonstrates, I believe, that inevitably the ancient Greek historian did not in fact, could not indeed, wholly maintain his objectivity, certainly understandable in the Thucydides himself was a direct participant in some of the events he described. In several cases, notably Pericles' involvement in the origin of the Peloponnesian War and the doomed Athenia expedition to Sicily, Kagan presents a strong case that Thucydides has deliberately crafted an interpretation of events that ran counter to popular perceptions and, in fact, runs counter even to the evidence that Thucydides presented in his own book.
   
   Kagan's "Thucydides" might be viewed as a companion, with differences of emphasis, to his earlier single-volume history of the Peloponnesian War. Although much of the same ground is covered in both books, the focus is different, with the ancient historian much more in the forefront of this new volume.



2. The book is barely over 200 pages and contains huge chunks (word for word) from Kagan's one volume history of the Great War. Since the War took place over 2000 years ago it is disturbing, in discussing what various partcipants thought or said, to find the author using such phrases as "It is inconceivable that" or "There can be no doubt that". This book will be mostly incomprehensible to the reader unfamiliar with the Great War and annoying to those who have read Kagan's previous work.



3. Imagine getting the chance to read one of the world's great historians cross-examine Thucydides, "the Father of Scientific History." That is what makes Donald Kagan's //Thucydides: The Reinvention of History// such a treat. Kagan, one of the great modern Thucydides scholars, uses the Athenians own methods to tease out the reality behind his classic work, "The Peloponnesian War."
   
   Kagan persuasively argues that centuries of historians have been wrong in assuming that Thucydides' opinions represented his time's majority view. Combing through the ancient sources, Kagan assembles considerable evidence that the Athenian was history's first revisionist, crafting a counter narrative that continues to echo through history. This claim is certain to be controversial, but Kagan cogently argues that many of Thucydides villains were considered heroes by their countrymen, and that some of his heroes, in particular Pericles, was hardly thought as flawless as he portraits. "The Peloponnesian War" is a timeless work, ever applicable to power politics and international relations, the lesson of Athens war with Sparta enlightening in any age. With this work, Kagan has succeeded in only making it more relevant to the complexity of the modern world.
   
   Reviewed by Jordan Magill

5 comments about Tides of War.

1. I doubted whether Mr. Pressfield could match his earlier masterpiece, Gates of Fire. Well, he matched it these respects: sparkling, lyrical characterizations and dialogue (especially speeches), compelling battle scenes and realistic descriptions of everyday life 2,400 years ago.
   
   But in the storytelling, he fell a bit short. I believe as much as 20% of the text could have been edited out, making the narrative flow much better and and the plot less choppy and confusing. To be fair, however, the twenty-seven year Peloponnesian War was itself a choppy and confusing history, with generals and city states switching sides, a bizarre large scale Athenian attack at Sicily with the Spartans at the gates of Athens, inexplicable exiles and executions of (even successful) generals, shifting, illogical tactics and strategies, a frightful plague (typhoid), barbaric sieges and sea battles throughout the Aegean.
   
   One thing that definitely comes through is the danger of a pure democracy like 5th century B.C. Athens. The Athenian assembly was essentially a leaderless mob marked by caprice, greed, impatience, passion, class conflict and moral corruption. Athens had an empire, a large unopposed fleet, a huge treasury, a large population and a flowering culture. Sparta, an oligarchy, had none of that but still prevailed in the end. There is a political lesson to be learned that is still relevant today.
   
   Don't make my mistake of reading this novel without a grounding in the history of the Athens/Sparta conflict. I plan on reading Donald Kagan's The Peloponnesian War to fill in the gaps, after which I may reread Tides of War.



2. I've read four of his books and I think this was his best. That is saying a lot since he also wrote "The Gates of Fire." "The Tides of War" was TRAGIC. It wrung my heart by the end. St. Augustin wrote about how insane it is for people to actually want to feel sad by watching tragic plays popular in the ancient world...but this is one of my favorite books. His portrayal of Alcibiades stuck with me, and still does. Probably one of the most gifted people who has ever lived.



3. This is my first Pressfield book and I must say it plunges you into a world that is long extinct. The battles, life, and scenery of Ancient Greece are brought back to life in such vivid detail that the reader feels like they are part of the fabled legend. The complexity of the story is also amazing. The references to Homer's Iliad are also made apparent within the writing. Pressfield is good - real good. And his ability to accurately portray a world that has been forgotten is amazing. I would highly recommend it.



4. This 6-hour 4-cassette audiobook made me feel as if I were there during the 27-year Peloponnesian War. Pressfield wrote so accurately about the times and presented this work through believable characters that I was able to suspend belief and thoroughly enjoy my listening experience. In all of human history, the events and circumstances of the Peloponnesian War is one of the most compelling stories.
   
   Pressfield masterfully uses a character called Polemides to provide the narration of this tragic story and of Alcibiades, the central character and one of the most interesting characters in all of history. Polemides begins as a very innocent young man who, along with everybody else that suffered in this war, loses his innocence completely.
   
   The Athenians had experienced their Golden Age, lasting about 19 years if one counts the start of its war against Sparta as the end of that period. In this time, Athens had become wealthy and controlled an empire that included most of the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Technology had provided a better lifestyle and goods from many parts of the world flowed into Athen's port. A wealthy elite had emerged, with economic interests to protect, and an electorate of beneficiaries of Athen's "Greatest Generation" felt a need to continue the tradition and do great things. Hubris led Athens to start war with Sparta, the quintessential military culture of its day.
   
   Neither side, Athens nor Sparta, could end this war within any short timeframe. Athens had the navy and walled protection of harbors, especially in Athens, and Sparta had the army and an easily defended geography with mountains surrounding all sides excluding the sea. This turned into a war of attrition over twenty-seven years and involved many other powers, particularly the Persian Empire. Alcibiades, the most capable leader of the time, was caught in the middle, beginning on the side of Athens and switching sides a couple of times. No leader was as effective as Alcibiades or as controversial.
   
   To me the most powerful part of this epochal story was the disastrous Athenian invasion of Sicily. Syracuse, the powerful city-state of Sicily, was allied with the Spartans. This was where the Athenians suffered horribly and is the prime example of the horrors of this long war. Without giving too many details of the story, I can just say that Pressfield captured the historical suffering of the Athenians extremely well in this part of the story. I don't think you can make it through this part of the story without feeling the profound sense of tragedy of the human condition. Tides of War will probably make you think about the tragedy of war in the broadest possible sense.
   
   I also give Pressfield credit for a strong ending to this story. We end up in Athens at the end of Polemides' life, and we learn a great deal about Socrates. What we see is a defeated city taking revenge on anybody it views as traitors, which actually happened. The Athenian empire was not reinstated. It was over. This is an excellent book and well-narrated.



5. I read a lot of fiction, fantasy and historical fiction, usually about a book each week. I got Pressfield's name off the George RR Martin website and read Gates of Fire, which I enjoyed. So naturally I came back for more and purchased Tides of War. I feel like I have been reading this book forever! The more I read the less I like it, and now I can't read more than a few pages at a time and find myself actually skipping pages of dialogue that I know I'm not going to miss. I almost never do that! The story just drags on and the pages are full of little speeches the characters make to eachother (which overshoot eloquent and land firmly in the territory of verbose). I just can't do it anymore. I'm about 70% through and I can't bring myself to finish the book (which shames me). The narrative is told through someone who talks to his grandfather who is recounting a story told to him by the guy who was friends with guy who the story is really about. I mean serioulsy! I read for fun and relaxation, and this book delivers neither. It's back to Bernard Cornwell for me.

5 comments about The Peloponnesian War.

1. It arrived in good condition well within the time that it was supposed to reach me. I've already read pretty far into it and haven't found any tears or pencil marks or anything like that. I'm satisfied.



2. As far as reading ancient history goes, you can't go wrong with delving into the Peloponnesian War. While this reviewer leans toward the Greco-Persian wars, it is hard to deny the attraction and importance of the devastating war between Athens and Sparta. And if you're looking for an authoritative account of that war, Donald Kagan's book is for you.
   
   Other reviewers have stated that Kagan's work is authoritative, and they are right. Of course, as with any history, no treatment can be deemed "authoritative" if that term is meant to signify a book that renders impossible further original or important work on the subject. (You could go back to Thucydides himself, or you could fast forward a couple thousand years to Victor David Hanson's fine work, to provide but two examples.) But Kagan's work is so thorough that there is really no need for a reader to turn elsewhere, and perhaps that is ultimately why the term "authoritative" seems to fit.
   
   The real praise, though, is in the fact that Kagan's book never devolves into an encyclopedic account of the war. It is imminently readable. Indeed, by the time this reader came to the final page, he was left with distinct and lingering melancholy regarding the fate of 5th century Athens and the might-have-beens for Greek -- and therefore Western -- civilization. Only an engaging story can convey such feelings.



3. I am interested in history and felt that it would be interesting to learn more about the Peloponnesian War. This book is a condensation of Professor Kagan's four-volume history. I wondered why four volumes were required to tell the story of the war, but now I realize why - Peloponnesian War lasted 27 years and was incredibly complex.
   
   Professor Kagan writes clearly and makes an incredibility-complicated war understandable. One of the best features of the book were the maps. There were 29 of them and they were clearly drawn. Without them the text would have been undecipherable. My only negative comments (and they were not enough to reduce my 5 star rating) were that being a condensation the text was a bit choppy (owing to the condensation of the story) and more factual than exciting. I would have also liked more background material about the prior history. There was some, but it was limited to capsule account of the rivalry between Athens and Sparta. I would have liked a 20-page review of the whole prior history, in particular the wars against the Persian Empire, where Athens and Sparta were allies. I would also have liked another 20 pages detailing what went on after the war. Athens' rise from defeat and Sparta's fall are only mentioned in a brief 6-page "conclusions" chapter - I would have liked more.
   
   Prior to reading this book I thought that the war was simply between Athens and Sparta, but it was much more than that. I knew that there were other city-states involved, but I never realized that in addition to the major ones, such as Argos, Corinth and Thebes, there were so many city-states (hundreds and hundreds), and that most (along with the Persian Empire) were involved and that they shifted alliances as different factions gained control of the city. I now understand that:
   1) Not only were there many hundred city-states (almost a thousand by some counts), but also that many were very close to one another - only about 10 miles in some cases. Even the bigger cities were relatively close to one another - less than 50 miles in many cases. For me, this put the whole of Greek history into a different perspective.
   2) Athens was not the heroic city-state that I believed it to be. It was an imperialistic empire and that most of the cities that it controlled were eager to get away from Athenian hegemony. They were happy to align with Sparta, against Athens, when they got the chance.
   3) Athenian Democracy was not a system that I would have liked to live under, as there was no real check to the power of the Assembly, and the Assembly's unwise choices ultimately led to Athens' defeat.
   4) Sparta was not the invincible power that I had always believed. Their enemies did not automatically flee from them, but fought and many times won. The Spartans did not always prefer death to surrender. They surrendered in several battles and were not scorned for having done so - Sparta was willing to give up a lot to get them back.
   5) Spartans were not all honorable "men of their word", but contrary to their war aim of "freedom for the Greeks", Sparta's leaders were willing to hand Greek cities over to the Persian Empire in order to obtain Persian support and win the war.
   
   While the history of a war that occurred over 2400 years ago, Professor Kagan shows that the Peloponnesian War is remarkably relevant to more modern times. For instance:
   1) While not discussed in the book - most of the founding fathers of the US (at least the college graduates such as Jefferson and Madison) were well versed in Greek history. The failure to the Athenian democracy led them to make sure that there were checks and balances in place to temper the will of the majority and prevent the excesses that Professor Kagan describes.
   2) The war started, as many do, over what in retrospect was a minor incident in a far-away city-state, with the major powers being drawn in by their web of alliances. The parallels with WWI are very clear - an idea mentioned in the book and one that many historians have commented on. Here was a clear case of smaller powers manipulating the major ones by threatening to leave their alliance and by doing so encourage others to do the same.
   3) While a war between states, the conduct and outcome was greatly influenced by the individuals such as the Athenian Alcibiades and the Spartan Lysander. Indeed the personal goals of these two men shaped the war much more than their governments.
   4) The Athenian campaign in Sicily laid the seeds for their ultimate defeat. The Sicilian campaign was unnecessary, but was made to seem important by generals who sought glory over the needs of the state.
   5) Athens lost the war, but ultimately rose from defeat to create a new great age - the age of Plato and Aristotle. They quickly restored their democracy and learned from their mistakes. Sometimes defeat can lead to ultimate victory if you let defeat teach you what you did wrong and what to do right.
   6) Sparta won the war, but its victory ultimately destroyed it. Victory led to making Sparta rich, destroying a culture that made Sparta what it was. Victory led to a Spartan Empire and created many enemies who were no more willing to endure Spartan imperialism than Athenian imperialism - Spartan hegemony lasted only about 30 years. Sometimes victory can be ultimately a bad thing because victory is a very poor teacher.
   
   All in all, a very interesting book about a subject that I now realize is more important than I previously believed. I hope that this book is used in military academies; there is a lot that modern soldiers (and politicians) can learn from it.



4. When I read a book about an historic conflict I want to be able to satisfactorily answer the following questions:
   
   1. Do I understand why the conflict began?
   2. Do I know the key players (nations and individuals) and understand their roles in the conflict?
   3. Was the story action packed?
   4. Was their enough historical detail to make me feel as if I were immersed in the times?
   
   Answers:
   
   1. Absolutely. Kagan set conditions for a pleasant and easily comprehensible historical account by recapping the decades leading up to this war, including previous conflict with the Persians and the race by competing Greek City States to establish colonies, power and influence throughout the Mediterranean World.
   
   2. Yes. Kagan takes the time to provide background on key players concentrating primarily on illustrating their political affiliations, their key allies, their enemies and how their decisions rippled through the respective populations they governed. You will not finish this book and ever have to ask yourself, "Why did this or that event occur?". Every effect during this war had a cause and Kagan leaves no holes.
   
   3. Does a dog have fleas? This is my favorite part. I love to read, listen to or watch accounts of battles. Whether it be from the perspective of an individual soldier fighting his way through a trench to take out a gun or from an observer's perspective detailing the strategy and tactics behind the overall battle. Kagan gives the observer's perspective detailing conditions prior to the battle and providing the intent and objectives of the commanders on both sides.
   
   4. No stone went unturned. Kagan did his research and described weaponry, equipment and the wardrobes of both the Armies and Navies involved. He described the clothing, political procedures, architecture and much more. IF you don't feel immersed in ancient Greek Culture from reading this book then I doubt any book will ever be good enough.
   
   
   FINALLY,
   
   The book is long no doubt, but it had a great feel and though I'm a much greater fan of historical fiction, rather than historical documentaries, I would rank this in the top 5 books I've ever read. I forgot to mention Kagan's comparisons between this conflict and the Cold War. There are many commonalities between the two conflics and it was an outstanding tactical choice for the author to use the Cold War. Anyone fascintated by the Cold War era will be more than satisfied with this book.



5. Professor Donald Kagan built his reputation as his generation's foremost scholar of Ancient Greece based upon his four volume history of the Peloponnesian War that was published between 1969-87. His friend John Hale of "Lords of the Sea" fame, convinced him to write a single volume history of the Peloponnesian War for non-specialists. The resulting book "The Peloponnesian War" has become a modern classic. Kagan's book has become the standard text of this conflict and it will have to be an extraordinary book that displaces it from this position.
   
   "The Peloponnesian War" is the very model of a classic work. Donald Kagan is a gifted writer with the narrative gift to bring alive a 2,400 year old war. However, it takes more than good writing to make a classic book. It is the clearness of Kagan's vision which sets this book apart. Through his close reading of the ancient texts, Kagan is able to fill in the historical blank spots. For over two thousand years, readers have been able to thrill over the exploits of Thucydides, Pericles, Alcibiades and Lysander. Kagan's great contribution has been to make these great men more human by filling in the lost details. This is a great book and I highly recommend it.

5 comments about The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Peloponnesian War.

1. To be forthcoming, I must note that I genuinely no longer enjoy Greek historiography. Where Herodotus carried on to tangents of varied interest and extravagence, this is a dry, straightforward account. Unless one is interested in a career as a professional historian or statesman, I cannot see the value of reading Thucydides cover to cover. I rue the day I'll do it again.
   
   That said, it's important to note that this is likely the best edition of Thucydides on the market. Strassler uses extensive maps, appendices and footnotes to make everything as clear as possible. He makes Thucydides comprehensible, but fails (as, I think, anyone world) to make him truly enjoyable.



2. I wish I'd had this fat volume back in the 1960s, when I was first making my way through Thucydides in my Introduction to Greek and Roman class. We used the Jowett translation -- admittedly a classic, but painfully slow going. I had read the first several chapters of this book before I thought to check what translation it used, and I was surprised to discover it was Richard Crawley's work of 1874. It certainly reads much more modern than that. There are explanatory footnotes crowding the bottom of every page, providing context for the history and the language. It can break up the flow of the story if you allow yourself to keep glancing back and forth between the text and the notes, but I'd rather have them on the relevant page than gathered all together in the back. The eleven appendices provide in-depth discussions of the Athenian and Spartan social and political systems, the role of religion in the 5th century BC, naval warfare, calendars, currency, and so on. I really have only one small complaint, which is the general uselessness of the many small, black-and-white situational maps scattered throughout. They're often repetitive -- it was a pretty concentrated theater through most of the war -- and each one comes with a "helper" map, to remind you exactly where Greece is. And many of the footnotes refer to locations on the maps, an inch or two away, which is unnecessary. I would have been happier with a single, large, color map with all the details and ancient place-names in one place. But it's an excellent book nevertheless.



3. The biggest problem with this book is that it falls apart. I am reading it for a class, having read other editions (2) before, and I was afraid to return it to the library in the condition it was in after I read one chapter, until I went to class and found that EVERYBODY's books were falling apart! Most had purchased from Amazon or third party Amazon, but weren't willing to go through what it takes to get a credit.
   Secondly, in the introduction, the authors claim that the reason Thucydides didn't complete the work is that he died. This is highly controversial at best. My own fanciful hypothesis, based on another edition (Great Books), which states that he seems to have lived long after the work ends, is that he had changed his viewpoint, and could no longer write a unified work.
   The third problem is the "cliff-notes" in the margins of the book. This is not really reading Thucydides! I am doing my best to
   disregard them. Neither these, nor the numerous footnotes are included in the Amazon excerpt. This is misleading.
   The 2 page glossary is good, and the maps are fine but ill placed; I would like one big colored fold-out map at the end, or a few at most. Many of the footnotes, the numbering of which is confusing at first and unexplained,refer either to the maps or glossary.They are distracting from getting the gist of Thucydides, which lies in his excellence as a rhetorician, and his presentation of classical Greek political philosophy and reality.
   All these interruptions remind me of the textbooks of public schools, which I also find a detriment to education.It takes me about four times as long to read this edition as any other, because of the distracting material .Maps are available on the internet if one needs them.
   Now the actual translation is extremely readable as one can see from the excerpt shown by Amazon, and it and the appendices
   are well worth saving. Please first put the book into a readable condition ( I am saving mine for class only, as I don't want it to fall apart anymore, so that I will have to pay the library). Next remove the cliffnotes! Allow the reader to interpret this wonderful author!
   We are grownups! Third, put all the maps in the back, and allow the reader to use them at leisure. Take out the distracting and
   unenlightening footnotes. And finally, allow that the reason the work ends before the War ends is a great mystery.
   The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Peloponnesian War
   Cynthia C. Kegel, Ph.D.



4. In this review, I will not seek to add to the already excellent and comprehensive discussion of this book's many merits outlined in the five-star and four star reviews.
   
   What I can say is that I have been using this book as a teaching aid in my ancient history class. While it is far too complex a work to assign even in excerpts to grades 9-11 unless the students are exceptional, older classics students and college students will find this annotated version of Thucydides' seminal work a literal godsend. It is rich not only in the most up-to-date translations, but generous with explanatory maps and editorial commentary that explains what the old master historian is talking about and, most importantly, "why" he is talking about it. The result is an accessible Thucydides that becomes not only user friendly to the amateur reader of classic Greek literature, but also the master student and educator. It has been a welcome addition to my library as a reference tool, and I had forgotten how interesting the "grand old man" was, even when the scholarship of thousands of years has sometime proven him wrong or modified his perceptions, something I think he would have both loved and applauded.
   
   This excellent book is worth the money. But, I note that while I have not had the binding issues that others have had, I can easily see how the glue binding could come apart. So, "tenting" and exposing the binding to heat are probably very bad ideas.
   
   A worthy effort that produced a very worthy book.
   
   Recommended without reservation.



5. An extremely comprehensive and thorough treatment of Thucydides. It helps to read all the battle descriptions with some maps on the sides. The translation is strong and the added articles makes this a very worthy buy for any classicist. I highly recommend using it for any class on Thucydides.

5 comments about The Landmark Xenophon's Hellenika.

1. I was surprised but delighted to see this new Landmark edition of Xenophon's "Hellenica" when it first appeared in bookstores about six weeks ago. I was surprised because I wouldn't have thought that a publisher would see the same value (and potential profit) in producing a costly Landmark edition of Xenophon's history that they would have in issuing their earlier editions of the better-known histories of Thucydides and Herodotus. But I was delighted because Xenophon was a vivid historian who covered an exceptionally interesting period of ancient history (411-362 B.C.), and the quality of the Landmark editions is simply exceptional. No scholar or serious student of the period will want to be without this book, and any university or public library that has room in its collections for somewhat more specialized and academic works should order it as well.
   
   Xenophon's "Hellenica" covers the last phase (411-404 B.C.) of the Peloponnesian Wars between Athens and the Spartan alliance, with its great naval battles of hundreds of triremes in the eastern Aegean and the Hellespont; the final defeat and fall of Athens; the short-lived but bloody tyranny in Athens of the group of Spartan-backed oligarchs known as the Thirty Tyrants (which includes a vivid set-piece, somewhat reminiscent of Plato's "Apology," of the trial and extra-judicial execution of their opponent Theramenes); the defeat of the Thirty Tyrants and the restoration of democracy to Athens; the campaigns of the Spartan king Agesilaus in western Asia Minor, as he tried to restore independence to the Greek cities the Spartans had earlier sold down the river in exchange for Persian support during their war against the Athenians; the Corinthian War of 394-386, when Corinth switched sides and joined the Athenians and Thebans in trying to curb Spartan power; and finally, the rise of Thebes and its short-lived hegemony between the Spartan defeat at the battle of Leuctra in 371 B.C. and the inconclusive battle of Mantineia and the death of the Theban leader Epaminondas in 362.
   
   As this summary indicates, this is a period full of dramatic military action and political intrigue. Xenophon, who lived from c. 430 to around 356 B.C., was well-placed to tell this story. A well-educated Athenian from a wealthy (and probably conservative) family, he was a friend and devoted follower of Socrates in his youth. Although he almost certainly fought for Athens during the closing years of the Peloponnesian War, he was also a great admirer of Sparta and became a friend and close associate of Agesilaus, who was one of its two kings throughout most of the period covered by the "Hellenica." He fought as a mercenary in a Persian civil war during the final years of the 5th century, and his account of that experience (the "Anabasis") has maintained its status as a great adventure story since it was first published 2400 years ago. Because of his Spartan sympathies, Xenophon spent much of his life in exile from Athens, but perhaps returned there in his final years.
   
   Xenophon ranks lower as a historian than his predecessor Thucydides, mostly because his coverage is less systematic, more episodic and anecdotal, and because his animus against the Thebans who finally brought an end to Spartan power means that his treatment of them is extremely sketchy. His accounts of military encounters are less clear and specific than those of Thucydides; Thucydides clearly wrote with an eye towards instructing generals and admirals of the future, while you get the sense that Xenophon wants to give you some basic facts about what happened and then move the narrative along. His virtues are that he had a real feel for character, at least of those like Agesilaus whom he knew well, and he understood the value of revealing anecdotes and concrete details, as the excerpt quoted below demonstrates. While it has its flaws, his account is a vivid, dramatic, and pleasurable one to read.
   
   That said, should you get the Landmark edition or the cheaper Penguin Classics paperback, which goes under the title "A History of My Times"? Scholars and serious students of ancient history will want the Landmark edition. Beyond the text itself, there are nearly 200 pages of appendices on various topics, a 40-page introduction, and copious maps, photographs, and illustrations. The appendices include 75 pages of excerpts from the later historian Diodorus Siculus and 12 from the Oxyrhnchus Historian covering the same periods, which help to make up for Xenophon's selectivity and omissions. Also, any place cited in the text carries a footnote which in turn directs you to a map showing its location. The footnotes also clarify textual references that would be opaque to all except an expert: for example, when Xenophon writes (in the excerpt below) that the Athenians feared suffering the fate they had previously meted out to the "Histiaians, Skionians, Toronaians, [and] Aeginetans," the Landmark edition footnotes each people cited with a short description of the earlier event and a cross-reference to where it is discussed in Thucydides' history. The Penguin edition, in contrast, simply gives the bare Thucydidean citations, with no explanatory text.
   
   The Penguin paperback is a good value for the money, and certainly it has the advantage of greater portability. It also has a 40-page introduction and many footnotes, although these are less numerous, detailed, and explanatory than those in the Landmark edition. Also, the translator of the Penguin edition, Rex Warner, was not only a Classics scholar but also a novelist. My sense is that his translation places a greater emphasis on pacing and readability, whereas the Landmark translation (by John Marincola) seems to stick closer to the sense and feel of the original Greek, and is also very concerned with clearly spelling things out. I've provided an example of a single passage from each translation below (about the aftermath of the Athenian naval disaster at Aegospotami in 405 B.C.) so you can compare.
   
   Penguin/Warner: "It was at night that the [trireme] "Paralus" arrived at Athens. As the news of the disaster was told, one man passed it on to another, and a sound of wailing arose and extended first from Piraeus, then along the Long Walls until it reached the city. That night no one slept. They mourned for the lost, but more still for their own fate. They thought that they themselves would now be dealt with as they had dealt with others - with the Melians, colonists of Sparta, after they had besieged and conquered Melos, with the people of Histaea, of Scione, or Torone, of Aegina, and many other states. "
   
   Landmark/Marincola: "The "Paralos" arrived at Athens during the night, bringing news of the disaster at Aigospotamoi, and a cry arose in the Peiraieus and ran up through the Long Walls and into the city itself as one man imparted the news to the next. As a result, no one slept that night as they mourned not only for the men destroyed but even more for themselves, thinking that they would suffer the same catastrophes they had inflicted on others - the Melians (colonists of the Spartans whom the Athenians had defeated by siege), Histiaians, Skionians, Toronaians, Aeginetans, and many other Greeks."



2. This latest release in the Landmark Series, does an excellent job in maintaining the high standard already set.
   
   As a previous review has gone to painstaking detail to accurately describe the book, I concur it is excellent to have. The price is very good, and the quality of the content is superior.
   
   I did find the number of appendices, written by the same author, a bit troubling however. An excellent translation by Peter Green of the relevant passages of Diodorus is very welcome. It is a part of Diodorus that is not included in Green's new Diodorus (due out in Feb 10).
   
   As usual the maps are quite good, and there are enough of them to help place things properly.



3. Robert Strassler has delivered again in the third //Landmark// books. Truly worthy of the series name, this book deals with the lesser-known Xenophon and his //Hellenika// work. While Xenophon might not be as well know as Thucydides and Herodotus, Strassler and the other contributors bring Xenophon to life. They shine new light on a work that is not as well known, possibly making Xenophon's name as known as Herodotus. The Introduction and the Appendixes are excellent sources of information not only about the work, but also about the life and times of Xenophon and what was happening in the Ancient Hellenic world. These sections provide valuable, detailed information to any reader, lay person or academic. The contributors to the Appendix are knowledgeable about the topic and provide valuable insight about what you have just read. The maps give clear indications where events are taking place, and the annotated side notes are a valuable reference to keep track of events and people. This is an excellent addition to the //Landmark// series, and hopefully they will do more.
   
   Reviewed by Kevin Winter



4. This is by far the most accessible example of Xenophon's Hellenika that is available. Loving created and masterfully translated, this version is eminently readable. In fact, it is a pleasure. The book is copiously illustrated with dozens of aptly placed maps, as well as photographs.
   
   For anyone who is fascinated by early Greek history, Hellenika is highly recommended.



5. If you've struggled with Greek ancient history, this may be your salvation. I'm a neophyte in this area, since I've been discouraged so consistently before (even with Kagan's histories.) But this edition "makes it all possible." The maps are fantastic--meticulously referenced, and redundantly so, to avoid this exasperating process of thumbing back and forward to try to find where it was you saw that geographical name elsewhere. And the Appendices--yes, the APPENDICES--are absorbing, with biographical supplements, a fascinating discussion of Greek triremes, etc., etc. Dr. Strassler has got it just right. Imagine--reading 4th C BC Greek history just for fun!